Lets start with the more 'offensive' of our choices,
Bloodletters of Khorne.
Lacking some of the speed we need to get into combat reliably but are going to do considerable damage when they do...
WS 5, with Furious Charge upping them to S and I 5 combined with inbuilt Power Weapons (Hellblades) puts them most definitely in the 'Assault' category. T4, 1 wound and a 5+ inv. save doesn't help with their survivability particularly but that's an inherent problem Daemons have rather than an issue with this unit in particular.
Lets look at that survivability Vs. killing potential when were up against Grey Knights.
Grey Knight with Storm Bolter (standard ammo)
2 shots, 1.33 hit, 0.67 wound, 0.45 dead Bloodletters after 5+ inv. saves.
Grey Knight with Storm Bolter (Psybolt Ammo)
2 shots, 1.33 hit, 0.89 wound, 0.59 dead Bloodletters after 5+ inv. saves.
Grey Knight with Psycannon (Assault mode)
2 shots, 1.33 hit, 1.1 wound, 0.73 dead Bloodletters after 5+ inv. saves.
Grey Knight with Psycannon (Heavy mode)
4 shots, 2.67 hit, 2.23 wound, 1.49 dead Bloodletters after 5+ inv. saves.
Your most likely to be facing either 4 Storm Bolters and a Psycannon from a Combat Squad or double that from a full unit. Which means a Combat squad is going to kill between 2.53 and 3.85 Bloodletters depending on upgrades and a full 10 man unit is going to kill between 5.06 and 7.7. In addition, the combat squad has probably jumped out of a Razorback with Psybolt ammo and will most likely kill another 1 or 2.
I never take Bloodletters in less than 10's and I wouldn't recommend it to anybody else either.
Lets see how the Bloodletters do if they survive long enough to charge.
Bloodletter vs. Grey Knight.
Against a Grey Knight without a Halberd you'll be going first if you charged and last if you didn't due to Psyk-out grenades.
3 attacks on the charge, hitting on 3's equals 2 hits, resulting in 1.33 dead Grey Knights or less if they happen to be Terminators, lol.
As a basic rule of thumb one Bloodletter kills one Grey Knight or half a Terminator.
So Bloodletters have the killing potential, but are somewhat lacking in speed. If we take them then they'll need a decent sized unit and something in front to give them a cover save would be nice as well.
Daemonettes of Slaanesh.
Faster than Bloodletters but somewhat squishier and weaker in combat as well due to the fact that they need the Rending rolls to do the damage. They're 2 points cheaper each though as well as having both defensive and assault grenades which the Bloodletters obviously do not.
They have Fleet so they have a 'threat' range of between 13" and 18" (the turn after they've landed obviously). However their Toughness of 3 is going to have them sliced to pieces by torrents of small arms fire.
Grey Knight with Storm Bolter (standard ammo)
2 shots, 1.33 hit, 0.89 wound, 0.59 dead Daemonettes after 5+ inv. saves.
Grey Knight with Storm Bolter (Psybolt Ammo)
2 shots, 1.33 hit, 1.11 wound, 0.74 dead Daemonettes after 5+ inv. saves.
Grey Knight with Psycannon (Assault mode)
2 shots, 1.33 hit, 1.1 wound, 0.73 dead Daemonettes after 5+ inv. saves.
Grey Knight with Psycannon (Heavy mode)
4 shots, 2.67 hit, 2.23 wound, 1.49 dead Daemonettes after 5+ inv. saves.
Which means a Combat squad is going to kill between 3.09 and 4.45 Daemonettes depending on upgrades and a full 10 man unit is going to kill between 6.18 and 8.9.
So we need a few more Daemonettes in the unit to make it viable. Lets see how it does in assault,
Standard guidelines about charging apply. We'll presume we do...
4 attacks on the charge, 2 hit, 0.67 wound, 0.23 dead Grey Knights after 3+ saves and there's a 0.33 chance of rending. So we need to outnumber the Knights at least three to one to defeat them in combat and even more if they happen to be Terminators.....
The Story So Far.
So those are our two 'offensive' choices for troops. Daemonettes need to be taken in much larger squads than Bloodletters due to their relative toughness's and the Daemonettes lower damage output in combat. If you want to use your troops to kill stuff then you'll need to pick one of these, if however your planning on killing things with your other unit choices then we can use our troops more defensively,
Pink Horrors of Tzeentch.
Horrors are there to give some anti-infantry firepower as well as to give you access to a cheap Bolt of Change. They don't do combat.....at all.....If they get assaulted then they're dead.
As they've been selected presumable for their shooting abilities lets see what they are.
Warpfire, which they get as standard has the following profile : Range 18", S 4, AP 4, Assault 3. Unfortunately Horrors are only BS3 which is a bit of a let down. Also the more observant of you will have noticed that they're out-ranged by the average Grey Knight by 6".
3 shots at BS 3 equals 1.5 hits, vs. T4 that's 0.75 Wounds of which 0.5 will be stopped by a 3+ Power Armour save. That means it takes 4 Horrors worth of shooting to kill a single Marine. Of course we might have a single Bolt of Change to fire as well...
0.5 chance to hit, 0.42 chance to kill a Marine or 0.28 to kill a Terminator. Now I know this is designed to kill vehicles but your still allowed to fire it at infantry if you like ;-)
Of course it's not brilliant against vehicles either due to the Horrors low BS (3).
Vs. Armour 10
0.5 chance to hit, 0.33 chance to pen, 0.165 chance to wreck/explode. A glance followed by a 6 can still wreck but it's not very likely. You can work out the odds of that yourself.....Or e-mail Purgatus as his mathshammer is usually more thorough than mine.
So we have a shooty unit that's not very good at shooting.....
Plaguebearers of Nurgle.
These hold objectives really well and.....they hold objectives really well.....
For 75 points you get 5, T 5 models with Feel no Pain and a 5+ inv. save. They're pretty survivable against small arms fire and can hold up a moderately proficient unit in combat*. Of course their Feel no Pain is negated by Power Weapons but T 5 is some measure of defence against those, though Hammerhand somewhat negates that in turn.
* That's hold up as in 'tarpit' don't expect them to be winning any combats.....well maybe against Fire warriors.....
There's not much else to say about this unit really. You drop them on an objective (hopefully one that's in or near cover) late game and go to ground as soon as anything shoots at you.
Nurglings.
Are Nurgly.....
That conclusion section again.
Take at least 2 units of Plaguebearers to hold and/or contest objectives and then decide whether your Elites are killing things or your troops are (or a combination of the two). If your attempting to kill things with your troops then Bloodletters are generally better at killing Marines than Daemonettes.
Your going to need at least 2 units moving forward and if you want to reach combat they'll need to be at least 10 strong. The following is (imo) a decent starting point for your troops selections in both an all comers and anti-Grey Knight list..
Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts
Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts
Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts
Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts
That's 470 points total for that section and we can expand on that 'core' at higher points values.
Next time we'll cover Fast Attack and possibly Heavy Support as well depending on how long each entry ends up.
Thoughts and Comments are (as usual) most welcome.
Horrors are there to give some anti-infantry firepower as well as to give you access to a cheap Bolt of Change. They don't do combat.....at all.....If they get assaulted then they're dead.
As they've been selected presumable for their shooting abilities lets see what they are.
Warpfire, which they get as standard has the following profile : Range 18", S 4, AP 4, Assault 3. Unfortunately Horrors are only BS3 which is a bit of a let down. Also the more observant of you will have noticed that they're out-ranged by the average Grey Knight by 6".
3 shots at BS 3 equals 1.5 hits, vs. T4 that's 0.75 Wounds of which 0.5 will be stopped by a 3+ Power Armour save. That means it takes 4 Horrors worth of shooting to kill a single Marine. Of course we might have a single Bolt of Change to fire as well...
0.5 chance to hit, 0.42 chance to kill a Marine or 0.28 to kill a Terminator. Now I know this is designed to kill vehicles but your still allowed to fire it at infantry if you like ;-)
Of course it's not brilliant against vehicles either due to the Horrors low BS (3).
Vs. Armour 10
0.5 chance to hit, 0.33 chance to pen, 0.165 chance to wreck/explode. A glance followed by a 6 can still wreck but it's not very likely. You can work out the odds of that yourself.....Or e-mail Purgatus as his mathshammer is usually more thorough than mine.
So we have a shooty unit that's not very good at shooting.....
Plaguebearers of Nurgle.
These hold objectives really well and.....they hold objectives really well.....
For 75 points you get 5, T 5 models with Feel no Pain and a 5+ inv. save. They're pretty survivable against small arms fire and can hold up a moderately proficient unit in combat*. Of course their Feel no Pain is negated by Power Weapons but T 5 is some measure of defence against those, though Hammerhand somewhat negates that in turn.
* That's hold up as in 'tarpit' don't expect them to be winning any combats.....well maybe against Fire warriors.....
There's not much else to say about this unit really. You drop them on an objective (hopefully one that's in or near cover) late game and go to ground as soon as anything shoots at you.
Nurglings.
Are Nurgly.....
That conclusion section again.
Take at least 2 units of Plaguebearers to hold and/or contest objectives and then decide whether your Elites are killing things or your troops are (or a combination of the two). If your attempting to kill things with your troops then Bloodletters are generally better at killing Marines than Daemonettes.
Your going to need at least 2 units moving forward and if you want to reach combat they'll need to be at least 10 strong. The following is (imo) a decent starting point for your troops selections in both an all comers and anti-Grey Knight list..
Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts
Troops: Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5#, 75 pts)
5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle @ 75 pts
Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts
Troops: Bloodletters of Khorne (10#, 160 pts)
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 160 pts
That's 470 points total for that section and we can expand on that 'core' at higher points values.
Next time we'll cover Fast Attack and possibly Heavy Support as well depending on how long each entry ends up.
Thoughts and Comments are (as usual) most welcome.
You have read this article Chaos Daemons /
Grey Knights /
Mathshammer /
Tactica
with the title Killing Grey Knights with Daemons - Part 3 (c): Troops.. You can bookmark this page URL https://llourenzzo-putta.blogspot.com/2011/04/killing-grey-knights-with-daemons-part_14.html. Thanks!
